User:Freighttrain/Hardening the Fictional Logic Behind Superheroes

( Updated as of 06/11/2022 )

Contact e-mail : freighttrain@email.com

I don't usually like to write on topics from fiction that cannot not feasibly be at least categorically classified within the realm of hard science fiction (with Zoids being the exception), but upon closer examination I realised that I could apply some of the same classification, speculation and principles I have used in my other systems, to superheroes from DC and Marvel.

Here I will deal with the three main superhero teams of the Justice League from DC, and the X-Men and Avengers from Marvel as the foundation for my classification and speculation here, my main focus is on DC's Justice League as my favourite superhero by far is Batman, and I find DC comics in general to be more demure and less gaudy than Marvel, I also disregard and deprecate Ultimate Marvel and the MCU in their entirety (and to a slightly lesser extent the X-Men live-action film series (mainly due to each movie's lame, bullshit plot which I don't think actually follows any comic book canon, but also because of their tall, lady's man version of the canonically 5'3" Wolverine, when that role is already filled by Gambit, and the third reason is because those movies also lack Gambit, who is probably my favourite Marvel character, and last but not least, Anna Paquin shouldn't have been cast as Rogue, because she is unemotive and too weird-looking to be attractive), including its spin-offs as well, mainly because Jennifer Lawrence is a minger and James McAvoy is a dweeb), while the DCEU feels like a groggy overdone afterthought by comparison (and I won't even comment on where live-action Batman media went after that), and I find the various DC and Marvel live-action TV series that began appearing in the 2010s to be campy, unevocative and overly sensitive to contemporary 'social issues'.

As there are so many different superheroes in both DC and Marvel, and as they each have so many differently described superpowers, other dimensional etc. iterations, timelines and retellings of themselves, I have focused on only the superheroes from those three teams with the most realistic or otherwise easily explained or categorised superpowers (as well as those who I would see more as team players e.g. no Spider-Man listing in the Avengers as he is too freelance), in effect creating my own fan fiction iterations of each one, derived from the most logical etc. elements from each superhero's many iterations and descriptions, as well as creating my own logical explanations and limitations for the superheroes and their superpowers where necessary to emphasise realism, practicality and likelihood.

This will translate into versions of those superheroes with only their baseline powers, this is so that I am working with their essence rather than less pure material, I will then further simplify and practicalise this with my own RPL formulae to further refine each superhero, so that I have something more solid to work with when determining how they would best function as a team, as well as how their superpowers would complement each other in smaller tactical units.

I am no comic book nerd and do not aspire to be one as the totality of superhero lore is much too expansive, gaudy, far-fetched and inconsistent for my tastes, but I believe that I have seen and read enough superhero media to have a working knowledge of how to deal with the fundamental elements involved, and then apply my own speculative and classification formulas, to create my own 'hard' fan fiction version of these three superhero teams, and how they would each best; and most importantly realistically; function as a coherent tactical and strategic fighting force of Earth and mankind.

Key :
 * WiP = Work in Progress
 * RPL = Realism, Practicality and Likelihood
 * PR = Public Relations
 * ET = Extraterrestrial
 * BS = Bovine Scat

Notes :
 * I may have to develop further explanations, weaknesses, drawbacks or limitations (can be character limitations based on their personality etc. rather than their actual capabilities) for those superpowers that are over the top, do not make sense or could be too easily abused, e.g. The Flash
 * I use the terminology 'Earth human' to refer specifically to a normal unaltered human from Earth, e.g. Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen

Abridged contents :
 * 1) Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy, is not the masterpiece you might think it is
 * 2) Addressing the elephants in the room
 * 3) Common elements in superhero teams
 * 4) Common elements regarding superpowers
 * 5) Superhero/power categories — (WiP, only categorises preliminary Justice League members)
 * 6) Justice League — (WiP, listings and some basic notes, full superhero profiles later)
 * 7) X-Men — (WiP, preliminary superhero listings only)
 * 8) Avengers — (WiP, preliminary superhero listings only)

= Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy, is not the masterpiece you might think it is = Christopher Nolan's Batman movie trilogy, while aesthetically and in some ways thematically pleasing, has poorly written storylines for all three movies which became worse with each sequel, and several major improvements can easily be made, mainly with how Wayne Manor shouldn't have burned down at the end of the first movie; leaving iconic scenery out of the first sequel; how Batman/Bruce Wayne should not have been crippled at the end of the second movie; creating an eight year hiatus to his so far relatively minimal activities in Gotham City; as well as the entire premise of the third movie being absolutely ridiculous, and did nothing with the thematic setting that Christopher Nolan had built up over the first two movies, before ending it with the would-be Batman retiring from being both Batman, and Bruce Wayne!? The writers also seemed to ignore some important character aspects, in particular Batman's detective skills and very high intelligence, as I don't recall much or any focus at all on these over the trilogy.

The Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy is a concluded, self-contained series of three-movies which at the very least shouldn't have been definitively ended as it was, and should instead have just been left open-ended, and did not strive to be faithful to (e.g. the origin stories of several characters including Batman) or properly cover the fundamentals of the franchise's expansive lore. The tip-off to this was the killing off of a character like Ra's al Ghul at the end of the first movie, it showed they weren't planning on fleshing it out or allowing for further expansion, obviously they didn't have to make a dozen movies to cover the fundamentals of Batman lore, but pretending that a self-contained trilogy with only a handful of villains, where Batman spent most of his time either without a house, crippled, or without his best gear, could conclusively end like it did (i.e not leaving it open-ended) and still call itself a Batman saga, is absolutely ridiculous and insulting to both fans and the source material.

The third and final movie also created a completely noncanonical origin story for the supervillain Bane, tieing it into Ra's al Ghul's assassin organisation, having his mask administer painkillers instead of the drug Venom; as well as doing away with the top half of his mask's facial coverage; and even changing his ethnicity from British/Caribbean to Romani. This was a very weak move and alone made the movie unwatchable for me.

Though the most unappealing aspect of The Christopher Nolan trilogy, is how it distastefully seems to have a particular focus on destroying Batman's house, physically crippling him, and destroying his toys, for instance the first movie ends with Wayne Manor burning down, and so is not featured in the second movie, where his Batmobile is destroyed, and which ends with Batman becoming a crippled from a leg injury from a banal event that became a major plot element, where he had to drop down from a height, is somehow not strong enough (this would be easy for any fit man) to retain a one-handed grip on a wooden beam protruding from the side of a building, for more than a few seconds... Before falling and uncharacteristically not offsetting the landing with either a parkour-type roll or a gadget... Resulting in a cessation to Batman's activities for eight years between the events of the second and third movies, an injury that which by the time of the third movie had still not healed, with him having to wear a robotic knee brace for the beginning of that movie, during which he then spends another lengthy amount of time out of action with an injured back, though somehow incredibly, his knee is also healed when his back is set correctly, before crashing his Batbike, and faking his death by blowing up both his Batplane and nifty fusion reactor, the movie ending with him retiring from being not only Batman, but also Bruce Wayne... Essentially making this pseudo-saga in the Christopher Nolan movies just a flash in the pan in terms of Batman's effect on this Gotham City, which is completely out of line with the prolonged vigil over Gotham that Batman is known for, absolute garbage and anathema to Batman's stoic ethos of vigilance.

Christopher Nolan trilogy actor swap outs

 * Batman/Bruce Wayne — John Hamm > Christian Bale
 * Christian Bale wasn't a bad choice, though again the canonical high intelligence and detective skills of Batman, are very understated in not only this trilogy but in all live-action Batman movies, I believe Christian Bale could have done it but the writers always seem to overlook this aspect of Batman, however I feel that John Hamm would be the best option to canonically portray this character.
 * Alfred Pennyworth — Pierce Brosnan > Michael Caine
 * Lucius Fox — Danny Glover > Morgan Freeman
 * Morgan Freeman is too much of a cliche and has been stale for a while, we didn't need him in a Batman movie and Lucius Fox is much more interesting depicted primarily in a role as Batman's mechanic like in the early 90s cartoon, which the burly, earthier Danny Glover would portray much better, he could also bring that daughter schtick with him from Lethal Weapon!
 * The Joker — Ron Perlman > Heath Ledger
 * For a lot of people The Joker from the early 90s cartoon is the most iconic, he was also a tall and genuinely happy guy so I think Ron Perlman fits here quite well, he's also nuts in real life.
 * Bane — ?Martyn Ford
 * A tall bodybuilder of about 6'5" as the physical actor, with a Latin voice actor having a strong vocal presence as his voice, in a similar fashion to how the character of Darth Vader was portrayed in the original Star Wars trilogy.

Castings for other live-action Batman characters

 * Mr. Freeze — Michael Fassbender (at this point casting Brian Cranston here would just be a shameless typecast)
 * Killer Croc — Dwayne Johnson (yes, I can see the pun)
 * Harley Quinn — Emma Roberts
 * Poison Ivy — Julianne Moore

= Addressing the elephants in the room =

With all the advanced superhero and alien technology/physiology and magic, why does the world still suffer from contemporary problems
Obviously with such advanced technology and physiological/magical capabilities in public view, one would think that contemporary problems such as physical ailments, famine and unsustainable use of natural resources, could quickly and easily be solved on a global scale with these elements seen in various superhero media from both DC and Marvel.

Obviously at first glance of this situation it should indeed be the case, but clearly it is not depicted as being so in superhero media and so obviously this could only be something to do with the with great power comes great responsibility thing, so I propose something similar to Starfleet's 'Prime Directive' protocol from Star Trek, about not interfering in the affairs or development of nascent cultures.

In this sense it could be applied to superhero media logic, with it being agreed upon by superhero organisations that it is in the best interests of Earth humans, to solve their own problems with their own resources at their own developmental rate, and learn from their own mistakes and uncontrolled behaviour, rather than become dependent on or have to owe intellectual credit to (something like this may not seem significant, but it can have potentially major future xenopolitical ramifications) alien resources or technology for solving their problems or unnaturally accelerating their scientific development.

How does Superman trim his indestructible scalp/facial hair and finger/toe nails
My theory is that when he was a child, Clark Kent was painfully aware that his untrimmable continually growing hair and nails would draw much unwanted attention to him, and he was so fearful of this that he developed an intense psychosis, which simply caused him to prematurely develop mental control over the biological processes that regulate his hair and nail growth, which he has been able to do ever since.

I've seen the long list of superpowers attributed to Superman on his article and this would not be far-fetched among them, I've even read of similar feats that have been allegedly accomplished by mystics in real life, so this theory could easily fit in with Superman lore.

Though keeping a small piece of kryptonite in his medicine cabinet, to weaken the molecular strength of the keratin in his hair follicles and nails while grooming, would be a simpler and more feasible explanation.

Spider-Man's impossible web cartridge capacity
Now I'm not including Spider-Man in my Avengers' team listings because he's too freelance, but I'm using his web cartridges here as an example because they are probably the worst instance of this that I can think of, somehow those small web fluid cartridges that Peter Parker manufactures in his bedroom, are able to store enough web fluid to repeatedly shoot those finger-width multi-storey building length web strands, and at high velocity with great accuracy, even with several cartridge chambers on his web shooter's rotating bracers and the backup cartridges in his belt pouches.

It has also been shown that Spider-Man is even able to shoot complex patterns with his web without having to weave it like a spider would, forming things like parafoils and other shapes.

Wolverine's adamantium-coated skeleton may be indestructible, but his joints aren't
This is one that has always bothered me, his skeleton may have been coated with the nigh indestructible metal adamantium, but that does not prevent him from being decapitated at a point between the cervical vertebrae, blown apart or dismembered at his joints, since obviously only his bones are coated with adamantium and not his soft connective tissues, and even if he were to regenerate from major limb loss, obviously those regenerated limbs would not be coated with adamantium.

Also if his bones were coated with adamantium, one would think that their ability to provide his body with the red and white blood cells they produce and the minerals they store, would probably also be hindered, though this has been glossed over, there is also likely more nonsense that would arise from his bones being coated with a rigid indestructible substance.

Tony Stark and his smartass-powered technology
No I'm not drawing parallels between Iron Man and Thunderpants (though I might as well be...), but the kind of technology that Tony Stark puts into his Iron Man powered exoskeleton is just ridiculous, I honestly think that most of it has more to do with the writers being able to come up with quips to help shroud the most obvious nonsense with smartassery, which read more like the slogans on those demotivator posters, comments in the vein of honey I think I just broke thermodynamics again.

This could be seen as similar to something from the Orks of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40.000, whose technology usually only works because of their collective belief in it, which forms a psychic gestalt that allows it to function how they would expect it to, except in this case Tony Stark's technology can only exist if he has a smartass quip for it.

Also aside from his ridiculous technology, Tony Stark would be dead several times over from the kind of impacts he has received while wearing his Iron Man suit, his powered exoskeleton may withstand such force without breaking, but there's still a normal human in that suit who would die from the rapid inertial forces and concussive shockwaves from many of those batterings, and one would think that blows from the Hulk should at least shake loose or damage some vital internal components of his suit from the sheer concussive force.

I don't know if this is somehow explained away somewhere in Iron Man lore, with some kind of automated kinesiological bracing system for the actuators at the suit's joints, when his Iron Man suit is struck at high speed with great force, as well as shockwave dampening material/technology, but it really just looks like Marvel is trying to use Tony Stark as hater bait.

Bruce Wayne's mastery of 127 different martial arts
Not technically a superpower, but still total BS, a man as busy as Bruce Wayne would not have spent or even had the time, to master 127 different martial arts.

Bruce Wayne would understand how to most efficiently use his time and effort, he would have determined the best martial arts to study in order to develop the most comprehensive and functional close combat repertoire, he would have been able to do so with proficiency in perhaps ten different martial arts at most (and this isn't even including the unconventional/guerilla warfare, espionage and other skills taught in authentic ninjutsu beyond the hand-to-hand combat skills of taijutsu), not one hundred and twenty seven.

= Common elements in superhero teams =

Wealthy benefactor and/or founder
The founder of each respective superhero team, financing the team and providing its headquarters and accompanying logistical/technological infrastructure, also usually both head their own technology business (Wayne and Stark) and are an active member (Batman and Iron Man) of their superhero team. The kind of technology that Tony Stark puts into his Iron Man powered exoskeleton is just ridiculous, I honestly think that most of it has more to do with the writers being able to come up with comments to help shroud the most obvious nonsense with smartassery, which read more like the slogans on those demotivator posters, lines in the vein of honey I think I just broke thermodynamics again.

This could be seen as similar to something from the Orks of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40.000, whose technology usually only works because of their collective belief in it, which forms a psychic gestalt that allows it to function how they would expect it to, except in this case Tony Stark's technology only works if he has a smartass quip for it.

Team Headquarters
Usually feature both an accessible PR headquarters (Hall of Justice) and a secret operational headquarters (The Watchtower), sometimes with the operational headquarters secretly at the same location as the PR headquarters, usually directly underneath it (X-Mansion), or even boldly combining the PR and operations headquarters (Avengers Tower).

Standardised team equipment/logistics
The superhero team would likely use at least standardised inconspicuous communication equipment, as well as a team VTOL transport vehicle (Javelin-7, X-Jet and Quinjet) for those who cannot fly under their own power, and sometimes even a standardised uniform style (X-Men).

Team tactics and advantageous pairings
This is something I don't see a lot of but is what should really form the foundation of superhero teams in media, properly devising both predetermined and ad hoc team tactics based on individual capabilities, and determining which pairings of superheroes complement each other, rather than the flashy incoherent mêlée we have all seen in the MCU with the 'run in and chaotically punch/blast all the baddies until they go to sleep or run away' combat doctrine.

= Common elements regarding superpowers =

'Peak human condition'
Regarding this terminology used often in comic books, for a real world example of this I would use the martial artist/physical culturist and actor Bruce Lee, he was basically at what could be described as ‘peak human condition’, he had very lean muscle mass and was incredibly fast, powerful and had pinpoint dexterity precision, pound-for-pound Bruce Lee also had great raw physical strength, comparable to that of the old time strong men as well as apes such as chimpanzees, and regarding his endurance he would also regularly perform ten kilometre runs.

Now a good example of a regular human Superhero who is described as being in 'peak human condition' is Bruce Wayne/Batman, so regarding what I mentioned in the above paragraph, in his most realistic depiction and description he would have similar muscular proportions to Bruce Lee, but at 6′2" (or however tall he is), and probably broader shoulders proportionately due to both his baseline Caucasian genetics, and also because he would naturally have broader than average shoulders for his racial type due to his good genetics. Overly bulky muscles such as those seen in his video game depictions and other media, would also limit his range of motion, how fast he can move his limbs when striking etc. and also how fast he can move on foot, as well as hamper his acrobatic ability and stealth.

To get a better idea of what Bruce Wayne's physique would look like, you would have to go have a look at pictures of many of the lean-muscled old time strong men, because many also had bulkier muscles and/or had a good amount of fat on them as they came in all shapes and sizes.

RPL in interpretative speculation on superpowers
A good example of this is Aquaman's Atlantean (descended from Homo magi) physiology, aside from featuring gills for breathing underwater (which is a straightforward and scientifically realistic enough concept to work with), I have also read of Atlantean physiology affording muscle density ten times that of an ordinary Earth human (for comparison, Batman might be about four times as strong as an ordinary Earth human), with the explanation given being that living under the ocean at great depths means greater strength was developed to cope with the constant water pressure of several hundred kilograms (this includes the enhanced senses required to perceive one's surroundings at that depth).

Being physically ten times as strong as an ordinary Earth human is pound for pound about the same as a chimpanzee's muscular strength (though some believe that a chimpanzee's base muscular strength is proportionately closer to four times that of a human's, though the factors of muscular coordination and kinesic dynamism also add to an animal's strength), which has much more to do with the strength of the soft connective tissues (tendons and ligaments) and the electrical output of the nervous system (how much electricity it can pump into each muscle), than it does the size of the muscle or its 'density', so the greater physical strength afforded by Atlantean physiology is also a very straightforward and realistic concept for me to work with here (despite Aquaman being described as being strong enough to move tectonic plates by pushing them...).

Clearly defined limits of strength and resilience against conventional/near future materials and weapons
This is stuff like how much weight a superhero can deadlift and what thickness of steel they can punch through, as well as what calibre or type of weaponry has what discernible effect on them etc.

Clearly defined capabilities of fictional materials or DEW/magical etc. weapons
This is stuff like a fictional supertough material's (adamantium etc.) rating on the Mohs hardness scale etc., as well as how many megatons or how penetrative a particular fictional DEW beam (Superman's heat vision or Cyclops' optic blast etc.) attack/weapon is.

The specific limits, drawbacks and weaknesses of various superpowers
Aside from the obvious weaknesses such as kryptonite, I will focus here on more technical limits such as how long Cyclops can fire his optic blast for, and how long it takes to recharge his abilities and what conditions assist with that, basically the logistics involved with a team catering for each superheroes requirements regarding keeping them in optimum shape and charge, as well as their specific limitations in any of several combat scenarios.

= Superhero/power categories =
 * 1) Conventional (advanced near future) Earth human technology users
 * 2) Gadget users
 * 3) Batman
 * 4) Green Arrow
 * 5) Powered exoskeleton users (as their primary gear)
 * 6) Cyborgs
 * 7) Tony Stark BS
 * 8) Advanced ancient/magical/divine human lineage
 * 9) Technologically advanced, ancient magical human lineage
 * 10) Aquaman
 * 11) Divine ancient lineage
 * 12) Wonder Woman
 * 13) Earth humans with superpowers
 * 14) Superpowers derived from the 'metagene/X-gene'
 * 15) Superpowers derived from science-based incidents
 * 16) The Flash
 * 17) Superpowers derived from ET-based incidents
 * 18) Superpowers derived from magic-based incidents
 * 19) ET technology users
 * 20) ET-tech device users
 * 21) Green Lantern
 * 22) ET-tech cyborgs
 * 23) Cyborg
 * 24) ET physiology-based superpowers
 * 25) Hawkgirl
 * 26) Superman
 * 27) Martian Manhunter

= Justice League =

Batman

 * Secret civilian identity
 * Very wealthy and influential
 * Very high intelligence and broad knowledge base
 * Peak human physical condition
 * Advanced training and skills in martial arts, gymnastic/acrobatic and parkour/free running techniques
 * Advanced detective and espionage skills
 * Access to advanced tailor-made technology and its development

Green Arrow

 * Secret civilian identity
 * Similar resources, repertoire and physical capabilities as Batman, but with green rather than urban camouflage and usually only trick arrows as his gadgets

Aquaman

 * Can breath underwater due to internal or external gill-type organs
 * Advanced ancient human physiology (Earth human/Atlantean (Homo magi-derived)): His physiology is beyond 'peak human condition', e.g. his muscles and connective tissues are; pound for pound; as strong as those of an ape (may be able to tweak this with soft tissue and bone having a composition allowing for greater resilience and power output)
 * Nth Metal trident with various magical abilities

Wonder Woman

 * Secret civilian identity
 * Advanced ancient human physiology (Amazon/Olympian) with additional magic-based longevity-type immortality and other properties
 * Magical lasso which can ensnare any being and force them to tell the truth, and also free them from any illness, enchantment or mind control
 * Eighth Metal bracers
 * Invisible Eighth Metal aircraft

The Flash

 * Secret civilian identity

Green Lantern

 * Secret civilian identity
 * Immediate willpower-derived physical manifestation abilities by way of ET technological device
 * Affiliation with an intergalactic corps of beings empowered with the same ET tech device

Cyborg

 * Part Earth human and part ET-tech cybernetic physiology
 * Advanced super computer-like information processing/scanning capabilities
 * Very high strength, resilience and DEW power output capabilities

Superman

 * Secret civilian identity
 * Advanced ET physiology, the yellow dwarf star of this solar system activates his superpowers

Martian Manhunter
= X-Men =
 * Professor Xavier
 * Cyclops
 * Storm
 * Jean Grey
 * Beast
 * Wolverine
 * Gambit

= Avengers =
 * Iron Man
 * Captain America
 * Thor
 * Hulk
 * Hawkeye